A personal explanation

It’s a bit confusing. I posted this earlier, but felt it was too personal, on reflection, and removed it, so as not to add to what had turned into a bit of a deluge of goo. But, having taken down my bit, I also had to take down the comments, which seemed a bit harsh, on further reflection. So I’m putting it back up. But please don’t post abusive comments, as many were doing. They won’t be published, so you won’t look clever in front of anybody. If you find this whole issue self-indulgent, then back away. Go and read something else.

It’s important that you know: I have posted Richard’s response to this blog entry at the end of the blog entry. This was never intended to be “my” side of the story, simply my response to the confusion and speculation that built up in cyberspace around vagueness. My point of view is only half of the picture. Richard’s point of view is the other half. His response is now added to this entry at the bottom.

Look at the two happy friends in the above picture. This was taken almost a year ago, and shows me (right) giving a birthday present to Richard Herring (left) on the Saturday closest to his birthday, in the 6 Music offices. We were at the 6 Music offices because, in July last year, we were almost six months into our stint in the Adam & Joe slot on Saturday mornings, having been booked for a month in February initially. What fun we had. The only downsides to the run that eventually lasted 13 months were a) not knowing how long it would last, which prevented us from ever feeling secure – and we were still billed as “in for Adam and Joe” months into our stint on the scrolling text on DAB radios and other electronic guides – and b) having to work around Richard’s touring, and around Edinburgh, which took us both out of action for a month in August.

This week, as fans of the Collings & Herrin Podcast will know, we put out some “pretend podcasts” from November and December 2006, when Richard used to be a guest on my then-regular 6 Music weekend shows, and we would review the newspapers in a humorous and irreverent way. Listening to these recordings now – which were never podcasts, it’s just a half-hour of radio with the music cut out for copyright reasons – it’s amazing how young and silly and in love we sound! Little wonder that, a year after I stopped having a regular 6 Music show, we sought to recreate this exciting and natural chemistry by starting a podcast in Richard’s house.

That was in February 2008, after a year of not doing anything together. At that time, I wasn’t even being asked to deputise (or “dep”) at 6 Music, as I had seemingly fallen out of favour with the station’s bosses. Who needs them, I thought. So it was that Richard and I embarked upon our podcasting adventure, pretty soon falling into a rhythm of producing an hour of unedited, unscripted, unrehearsed nonsense every week, in his attic, using GarageBand and the in-built mic on my laptop. Collings & Herrin were born.

Over the next three years, we would not only keep this ridiculous podcast up, and pre-record podcasts to fill in the gaps when Richard was on tour or on holiday (I was seemingly never away), we also branched out into live performance, where our podcast relationship was made flesh for paying punters. The format stayed the same. But we changed. The podcast Richard became more and more dominant, and the 6 Music Andrew, the one who used to be in charge on the radio, became the butt of many of the podcast Richard’s jokes and tirades. The irony was: in real life, we became closer.

When, in February last year, our podcasting reputation had finally earned us a shot at doing a radio show and we landed the prestigious Adam & Joe slot when Joe had to go off and make a hit movie, we were chuffed. Even though we were now equals, I knew how to “drive” the desk, so took charge of the buttons and faders. Also, Richard made no secret of the fact that he didn’t much care about the music we were playing. This became part of our 6 Music schtick – we even built in a silly feature where I would “teach” Richard how to use the desk and he would press the wrong button (a rare example of something that was almost planned and rehearsed!) – and nobody seemed to object.

However, come the end of 2010, as if perhaps to compensate for the fact that I had my hands on the faders and Richard had never been given an email address, he grew more and more dominant on 6 Music, just as he had done on the podcast. The line between Herring and Herrin grew more blurred. I could see the comedy value in being the “victim”, as, for most of the time, I knew I wasn’t really the victim, and that most people who listened knew that. (Part of the real Richard, the one who is my friend, really does think I am an “idiot” but it’s not the whole story, clearly.) I personally think we allowed the podcast relationship to infect the radio show, and by Christmas, it had changed.

Meanwhile, over the preceding year, I had become 6 Music’s “super sub”, filling in for pretty much any presenter who was ill, pregnant or on holiday. This was a development that I relished, as I love being on 6 Music on my own, and I love having the freedom to do other stuff while still being a “regular” on the network. I enjoyed doing the show with Richard on a Saturday, and with Michael Legge when Richard was gigging, but the solo shows were, and are, much less stressful. Richard delights in pushing the envelope, and always has done. This is even evident back in 2006, if you listen to the archive. It’s what makes him brilliant and “edgy” (sorry to use a commissioning editor’s buzzword) and vital. He is a unique professional comedian who occupies an increasingly enviable position in the comedy firmament: he plays by his own rules, plays to larger and larger audiences, and is now regularly invited on telly (despite his protests to the contrary). He works incredibly hard, and deserves every ounce of this success. I know he has moments of insecurity and doubt, but then, so do all comedians. It’s a competitive business, and one that favours the young and the new, so to maintain a viable career by gigging and writing new material, and branching out, for 20 years or more is no mean feat.

Me? I had a stab at stand-up – ironically, because of the confidence that working with Richard had given me – but I am not deluded about it. I am not a comedian. I am a writer, and I am a broadcaster. These are the areas that might just continue to provide a career for me. Not comedy, or at least, not performance comedy. I envy Richard in many ways. His hard work is paying off. He is known as a pioneer in new media, and although I have had a hand in that, it’s through AIOTM that he’s made the biggest mark. I was never going to be a part of AIOTM – it was Richard’s brainchild, and it was his project, and it would be separate to Collings & Herrin. I understood that.

I was, of course, the fictionalised butt of a lot of the jokes on AIOTM, and I think my discomfort at some of that is pretty well know, but Richard was respectful enough to pull back on that, and even invited me onto the stage, twice, to reclaim some dignity. I appreciated that. But AIOTM was Richard’s thing, Richard’s success, Richard’s cult, Richard’s Sony nomination. Just as Richard Herring’s Objective is Richard’s thing. And his Edinburgh shows are Richard’s things. I have my things, which are, currently, a Guardian TV review, a slot on Zoe Ball’s programme, and … yes, my regular solo work on 6 Music.

So, when 6 Music asked me to pilot a show with Josie Long, with a view to trying it out on air in July when Adam & Joe’s latest bloc of shows ended, I was up for it. The writing had been on the wall for Collins & Herring on 6 Music from Christmas. We’d had a couple of run-ins, which we don’t need to rake over, and all I can say is, I’m glad our last shows together on the network were less grumpy and shouty, and I think we ended on a good note. Which is why, understandably, many of our listeners, and podcast fans, are disappointed that Richard and I will not be filling in for Adam & Joe in July. Instead, it will be me, with another comedian. Josie and I have been given five Saturday shows, after which she, like everybody else in comedy, will be in Edinburgh.

Richard knows Josie better than me, although I have come to know her through the gigs that I have done for Robin Ince and Martin White. We are not forming a double act. We are co-hosting some shows, to see how they go. I think Josie will be great. I’m still kind of there to push the buttons and the faders. I appreciate that not all of our old listeners will like this change. But I hope they give Josie a chance. I don’t need to be given a chance. I’m an old 6 Music war veteran in comparison to Josie. It’s her moment, not mine.

So, Richard is cross that I have agreed to do a show on 6 Music without him, and with someone else. I respect him and his reasons for being cross. But I was not secretive about what was going on. And he knows that I rely on 6 Music now for a good chunk of my work. I have been a 6 Music presenter since 2002. I had a show on the first day ever of 6 Music. It was through my regular show that I was able to get Richard on, first on Roundtable, then as a regular guest. Our chemistry began to bubble up on 6 Music. But we both have separate careers, and always have had.

Richard is doing a run of solo podcasts in Edinburgh. Brilliant. I will download and listen to them all, and wish I was up there with him. But I can’t afford the time or the money or the stress to go to Edinburgh. If I was going up, I feel sure we would be doing the podcasts together. But I am not a comedian, and I have no right to be up there. Also, the summer months offer up many “deps” at 6 Music, which, as I believe I have made clear, take priority. We’re all self-employed; we all have to take our work where we can get it.

I love Richard Herring, in a funny sort of way. The penultimate time we saw each other was when we went to see Seinfeld – a great evening with my friend! I am sad that my decision to take a job without him has made him cross, and uncomfortable. But this is why the C&H podcast is on a break. We are on a break. I think, like a married couple, we will weather the break, and in fact, the break will do us good. We have both been working too hard.

I felt I should express my feelings about this before my first show with Josie, this Saturday, to clear the air. (Richard wrote about it on his blog yesterday, albeit more briefly than this.) I suspect Richard will not be listening on Saturday. But then, he claims not to listen to anything I do without him, or indeed listen to our podcast. He won’t have listened to the “pretend podcasts” from 2006. If he did, I think he would be amazed how sunny and equal and silly we sound.

I hope we will be sunny and equal and silly again.

Richard’s response (which was posted below) is now added to this entry, for full disclosure and fairness. I am grateful that he added it.

The issue for me is not that Andrew is doing a show with someone else – of course he should be allowed to do work on his own and with other people. But I think to do the same slot that we were doing with someone else is disloyal to the friendship that Andrew (sincerely) professes here. It’s personal choice and Andrew is entitled to make that, but if the roles had been reversed I would not have considered doing the same slot with someone else for a second. Because I know it would have been upsetting and humiliating for him. I too feel quite humiliating and I think it would have been easy for Andrew to decline doing these five weeks work because it put him in a difficult position and that would not have affected his other work with 6Music. If 6Music had given the slot to someone else entirely then that would have been sad, but at least we’d have stayed united as a double act. I don’t think Andrew considered the impact of his decision at the time, but that in itself to me speaks volumes.
I have worked hard on trying to help him out by buying equipment for the show and paying for entry to the Sonys (cos he couldn’t afford to), selling his DVDs at gigs and keeping the 6Music show going during tours when I should really have been resting. I also very much wanted to do the Collings and Herrin podcast in Edinburgh but Andrew couldn’t make the commitment. I wouldn’t have minded any of that, but then the decision to do a slot that we’d made (temporarily) our own with someone else seems to show a lack of commitment to the double act that makes it harder for me to justify spending my already stretched time on it.
I suspect we will ride this out. I have always made time for C&H both on podcast and radio before however busy I’ve been- and it was a massive strain to keep the radio show going on last year’s tour. I am very busy at the moment and after Andrew’s decision I don’t feel that I should be pushing myself so hard if it’s something that he can treat so casually. He told me he as doing the show in advance, but as a fait accompli. I wouldn’t have minded so much if he has discussed it and offered to take into account my feelings on this.
The thing is that even if it isn’t an intentional slap in the face, it really reads like one. Whether it’s from 6Music or Andrew or both. I will probably get over it. Or maybe from the comments above about the imbalance in the relationship it might be time to take a longer break from it or stop. We were only doing it for fun and if it stops being fun then maybe we shouldn’t do it.
I don’t think that will impact on our personal friendship (and I suggested the break partly to make sure we didn’t) and I have enjoyed the stuff we’ve done and am grateful to Andrew for supporting me at a time when a lot of people didn’t give a fuck. But I am a person for whom loyalty is the most important thing and so in a sense that makes this decision a bit harder to make
Don’t give Andrew a hard time about it. I am sure the show with Josie will be great. And this is is in no way her fault. I think it’s an odd decision by Andrew to be honest, but he’s made it now. I guess it’s the fact that ironically enough I saw him as a friend rather than a colleague (we always joked it was the other way round) that has made this a harder thing to take. But I have taken knocks in this business many times before and I am not being precious or looking for sympathy, and I hope I am not being over sensitive, just trying to explain my feelings about it.
The irony is not lost on me that we’ve reached this situation because Andrew has offended me. But in the podcast the offensive things I have said were almost always just jokes. And this is real.
And I worry that it’s something that will affect our dynamic if we do try and do more stuff.
It’s great that you all care so much and even greater that you’re (mainly) not taking sides.Mummy and daddy will sort this out in time. We still both love you very much. It’s nothing that you’ve done.

PS: I have disabled comments on this blog post because it’s taking up way too much of my time moderating them (and believe me, they need moderating). Also, this way, Richard gets the last word on the matter.


173 thoughts on “A personal explanation

  1. I am grateful to you and Richard for being so honest about your private lives, these things are always way too complicated for us the fans to really know what’s going on and our role is to be grateful for the free podcasts and be respectful.

    I look forward to your new 6 Music show and to Richards’s podcasts.

    You two work brilliantly together and it’s amazing you have gone so long without a break and I know this chance for you to work on separate projects means when you do work together again you come back better than ever.

  2. Gosh I hope it all pans out as I love your double act. It was rather tight of the 6 music bosses not to offer the fill-in job to both of you. Disrespectful to you both, I think, especially since during your tenure we saved 6 music!

    Josie Long is ace and I’ll enjoy listening to you broadcast, as I always do, but I will really miss the Collin(g)s and Herrin(g) shows.

    BBC bosses: please let them back on the radio, we only want to hear them back on the radio …

  3. I hope you both weather the storm and come out of it refreshed and happy. Thank you for the ridiculous number of podcasts that you have put out over the last couple of years – they have been a huge part of my life and kept me (more or less) sane during a stressful daily commute. Here’s to the next time that you both sit down in Richard’s attic, whenever that may be!

  4. That was a very well written and emoitional blog entry.
    I wish you every success in your future 6 music work and I look forward to the return of C&H podcasts.

    Although, a part of me wanted you to end the blog with……….aside….

  5. Reading this the ‘break’ sounds more final than I thought.

    I really enjoyed your 6 Music show. The restrictions of public broadcasting seemed to make it more of a double act. In those ‘other’ podcasts, Herrin can be very dominant. But on the radio you seemed to have more opportunities to speak (and even be funny).

    You won over Adam & Joe’s audience on Saturday mornings before and I’m sure you and Josie will do that again.

  6. Thanks for the view into the Collings and Herrin soul. The podcast has been part of my commute for over 2 years so it will be weird to not have you travelling with me over the summer months. If you return I hope you are refreshed. If you don’t return thanks for all of the fun.

  7. I guess all good things have to come to a (hopefully temporary) end. We met at the last AITOM and you were charming and happy to chat with complete strangers, which is part of what makes you such a good radio presenter, your genuine interest in other people.

    Richard is, in my opinon, one of the finest comedians working today. Part of his schtick though is his aloofness and mock disgust at his audience’s complicity in some of the awful things he says. I guess a comedian needs to keep a certain distance and, as an audience member that is understood and completely accepted. He has, however, been lovely when I have briefly met him offstage.

    I hope, selfishly, that this isn’t the end of Collings and Herrin. Perhaps the time apart will be good for you, perhaps it’ll mean you have moved on. Whatever the outcome – thanks for the many podcasts you have done together, the entertainment you have provided, and I look forward to hearing your show with Josie, who is fabulous.

  8. Have to say Andrew, I started to find the Saturday morning shows you did with Richard really difficult to listen to – not because of you, but because I found him becoming more and more irritating. Which is odd, as I’d always liked his comedy work before. I’m REALLY looking forward to you and Josie’s stint, as I love Josie and can’t imagine her employing the ‘angry bully’ style of presenting that Richard ended up using; and I know that she’s a big music (and 6Music) fan, which it was always pretty clear Richard wasn’t – you know how utterly in love with and protective of 6Music the 6Music fans are! I think you and Josie will work really well on air together – and it’s great to hear that 6Music is a big priority for you, as your ‘dep’ stints are always really enjoyable. Maybe that’s the whole point – it became clear that 6Music wasn’t something Richard loved (or even liked very much), and I can’t think of any other DJ on the station who doesn’t make it clear just how MUCH they adore working at 6Music, and how lucky they feel to be there. What a shame he’s decided to get all cross about it when it sounds like it’s actually a distraction he’ll be better off without – I’m afraid I certainly feel like we’ll be much better off with him… Looking forward to Saturday!

  9. A nice piece, Andrew.

    I hope that this break isn’t permanent, and that your friendship remains.

  10. Andrew (and Richard although we all know he will not read this),

    I sincerely hope that this ‘trial separation’ results in a renewed Collings and Herrin, I have listened to all of your various material (although recently moving to Australia has resulted in a backlog I am still working through).

    The chemistry you two have has lead to more laugh out loud moments than I can remember, so if this the end, thank you for all the fun you have brought to my various commutes or miles on the treadmill.


  11. I find myself feeling really quite sad about this as a fan of the Collings & Herrin podcasts. It sounds like Richard, as much as I like and admire him, is being rather unfair in this instance – he has loads of stuff he does without Andrew. But then I’m basing this on Andrew’s blog piece and neither of you want my input anyway. However just from the point of view as someone who had a window (albeit a skewed one) on your friendship, it’s always sad to see mates have a proper row. I hope that time and space will allow your partnership to flourish once more.

  12. If all else fails, how about a shift to neutral territory, rather than Richard’s attic?

  13. A very mature response to what must be an awkward and hurtful time all round. I hope you’ll be sunny and equal and silly sometime again soon, I think you both work best with each other when there’s balance in the show (having listened to many many of your 6 music saturday shows), indeed, preferred many of yours to Adam & Joe (dare I say, but after listening to them for a long time I’m finding them a bit samey since they’ve been back). Looking forward to how it goes with Josie Long though, she’s awesome and I think pairing with you has great potential.

  14. I find this all a little disheartening and don’t mind admitting it makes me feel more than a little bit sad. Having listened to the podcasts since they started, it’s strange not having them as part of my weekly routine.

    That said, the relationship between you and Richard is much more important than my enjoyment, and I hope everything can be resolved (aside, I really do).

  15. The issue for me is not that Andrew is doing a show with someone else – of course he should be allowed to do work on his own and with other people. But I think to do the same slot that we were doing with someone else is disloyal to the friendship that Andrew (sincerely) professes here. It’s personal choice and Andrew is entitled to make that, but if the roles had been reversed I would not have considered doing the same slot with someone else for a second. Because I know it would have been upsetting and humiliating for him. I too feel quite humiliating and I think it would have been easy for Andrew to decline doing these five weeks work because it put him in a difficult position and that would not have affected his other work with 6Music. If 6Music had given the slot to someone else entirely then that would have been sad, but at least we’d have stayed united as a double act. I don’t think Andrew considered the impact of his decision at the time, but that in itself to me speaks volumes.
    I have worked hard on trying to help him out by buying equipment for the show and paying for entry to the Sonys (cos he couldn’t afford to), selling his DVDs at gigs and keeping the 6Music show going during tours when I should really have been resting. I also very much wanted to do the Collings and Herrin podcast in Edinburgh but Andrew couldn’t make the commitment. I wouldn’t have minded any of that, but then the decision to do a slot that we’d made (temporarily) our own with someone else seems to show a lack of commitment to the double act that makes it harder for me to justify spending my already stretched time on it.
    I suspect we will ride this out. I have always made time for C&H both on podcast and radio before however busy I’ve been- and it was a massive strain to keep the radio show going on last year’s tour. I am very busy at the moment and after Andrew’s decision I don’t feel that I should be pushing myself so hard if it’s something that he can treat so casually. He told me he as doing the show in advance, but as a fait accompli. I wouldn’t have minded so much if he has discussed it and offered to take into account my feelings on this.
    The thing is that even if it isn’t an intentional slap in the face, it really reads like one. Whether it’s from 6Music or Andrew or both. I will probably get over it. Or maybe from the comments above about the imbalance in the relationship it might be time to take a longer break from it or stop. We were only doing it for fun and if it stops being fun then maybe we shouldn’t do it.
    I don’t think that will impact on our personal friendship (and I suggested the break partly to make sure we didn’t) and I have enjoyed the stuff we’ve done and am grateful to Andrew for supporting me at a time when a lot of people didn’t give a fuck. But I am a person for whom loyalty is the most important thing and so in a sense that makes this decision a bit harder to make
    Don’t give Andrew a hard time about it. I am sure the show with Josie will be great. And this is is in no way her fault. I think it’s an odd decision by Andrew to be honest, but he’s made it now. I guess it’s the fact that ironically enough I saw him as a friend rather than a colleague (we always joked it was the other way round) that has made this a harder thing to take. But I have taken knocks in this business many times before and I am not being precious or looking for sympathy, and I hope I am not being over sensitive, just trying to explain my feelings about it.
    The irony is not lost on me that we’ve reached this situation because Andrew has offended me. But in the podcast the offensive things I have said were almost always just jokes. And this is real.
    And I worry that it’s something that will affect our dynamic if we do try and do more stuff.
    It’s great that you all care so much and even greater that you’re (mainly) not taking sides.Mummy and daddy will sort this out in time. We still both love you very much. It’s nothing that you’ve done.

    • You’ve got to admit, Richard and I are the most modern married couple in the country. We fall out, and instead of talking to each other face to face, or on the phone, we write blog entries and leave comments.

    • I do hope you do eventually work together again as the dynamic is brilliant and at times hysterically funny. Andrew, you say you’re not a comedian but I’ve laughed more at some of things you’ve said and done than I did with, say, Mock The Week. Banter was brilliant too. Truly.
      I do remember being incredibly sad at the time when Richard stop working with Stewart Lee so I’m a bit worried by this falling out but like your other fans I hope it’s only temporary.

    • If we were to believe everything we hear on The Collings and Herrin Podcast, Richard is a Bumpkin Billionaire residing in “Herring Towers” and Andrew carries his worldly goods around with him in a ripped Lidl bag.
      I’m sure Andrew’s decision has everything to do with him trying to escape a future of begging for cash down the local tube station whilst drunkenly shouting, “I yoosht to be on the radio….y’bashtuds!” ; rather than being a professional snub of any sort.

      Anyway Richard, he’ll be doing the show with Josie but he’ll be THINKING of you.


      I suppose I’m going to have to listen to audio books on the way to work now 😦

      Thanks for all the hours of entertainment.

    • Richard,
      I think you’re being a little bit precious – and I’m by far more a fan of yours than Andrew’s.
      Perhaps Andrew, not having a regular slot on 6Music, feels that he is not in a position to turn this down without jeapardising his increasingly tenuous position there? I don’t know how much is fact and fiction but you seem to be in a stronger financial position than Andrew, perhaps he really can’t afford to be turning down work when its offered.
      Forgive him Richard he knows not what he does.

    • Thank you Andrew and Richard for giving us a bit more of the story between you so civilly, and like reasonable human beings. I am, I admit, pretty sad that you have fallen out (hopefully temporarily) over this, although I can very much see both sides. Andrew has to work and would be daft to turn down the offer, but Richard very understandably feels hurt by what he sees as a betrayal.

      I’ve listened to the podcast from the very first one, and despite the evolving dynamic of Richard as the dominant, almost bullying half of the duo, your friendship always shone through in the more ‘real’ moments, and I sincerely hope that it will bring you through this bump in the road.

      Best of luck to you both in the meantime, and thank you so much for all the entertainment over the last three years.

    • Nice to hear both sides. I kind of agree with Richard and feel that Andrew should have at least given RH first dibs on the radio show. But hey …life goes on – just think of all the excellent material RH the character can make out of this in future podcasts

    • I first started listening to the podcast when I split with my ex of six years. at the time there where about 50 already and I listened to it every night. It was genuinely the only thing in my life that I looked forward too. It was a grate escape. It was later that I released that Richard was the same fellow I had watched bating a curiose orange with cress. So I went to see him live when he came to Liverpool. I was the o ly person in the front row he did not verbally molest. Over the years I have loved the podcast and aiotma was grate too. It was sad that little Andrew had to go but I can respect that big Andrew did not like it. It is for these reasons that I hope you can resolve this. I would still like to see a live one in Liverpool ( yes I want you to make up and remain friends for my own selfish reasons of entertainment. ). It would be missed if it where gone

  16. good luck with the show andrew. this all seems like a very natural progression / evolution. it will likely do you both good. the C+H podcasts that i enjoyed most were those where the real richard herring subbed in for podcast richard herrin. i think he’s far funnier (and you work better together) when he’s being the real him and not the cartoon version.

  17. I think I want to give you both a hug and clip round the ear at the same time.

    Do what you need to do and know that we nerds will be waiting for your return.

  18. Whenever I’ve heard Josie she has been great and I’m sure people will give her a chance.
    I think her cheery, kind-hearted whimsy will be a good fit for “the Adam & Joe slot”.

    The cheerful and cheeky banter is the most enjoyable part of the stuff you and Richard do together (I use the present tense optimistically). When Richard’s persona tips a little too far towards the domineering – and very occasionally almost bullying – it can get tiresome, and neither of you sound like you’re enjoying it so much either.

    I imagine it isn’t easy maintaining that cheerful vibe over however many hundreds of hours you’ve done together, and with whatever normal ups and downs are going on in your real lives. So I’m keeping my fingers crossed that your break from podcasting is restorative, that you and Richard patch things up, and that you can get back doing podcasts that you find enjoyable. But I’m selfish like that.

  19. For what it’s worth I am looking forward to the day you both appear on the same epsidoe of celebrity mastermind.

  20. I’m just annoyed because i’m so far away and the C&H podcast was my link to my old life. Or perhaps i should read a news website.

    I’m hopeful a break will make you both more relaxed about your relationship. and maybe slightly less precious. Yes, i’m complaining about a free podcast, but having once paid into an Edinburgh version, I feel i’ve paid my dues.

    Enjoy the break-up, and we will enjoy the make-up sex. Ewww, that didn’t sound good

  21. “6 Music destroys the C&H podcasts” Lets hope this isnt the epitaph for the Grandfather of all podcasts. Been a fan of Richards for 15 years and i understand he can be equally Mercurial and Obsessive Compulsive but feel there is probably more to this whole story than made clear in this blog.
    Double acts require a certain amount of loyalty and reading between the lines it sounds like there was a little resentment between you two over the AIOTM sub and possibly the MrBlueSky snub?
    I personally dont get the “bullying” thing. Richard does take the dominant stance in your relationship but its equally clear that he respects and loves you as well. If you study the history of double acts you will see there is always a dominate one and one that is the butt of his jokes, doesnt mean we the fans dont respect both equally.
    We all hope you can get over this, but it seems inevitable that the podcast will change. Who knows it may be even better.

  22. Can you not resolve your difference offline like people did in the good old days? I mean, it’s great to be a fly on the wall witnessing your tiff, but I’m not sure airing the dirty washing in public is the best thing to do frankly, mostly because type alone cannot always accurately convey emotions and can often be misinterpreted or misconstrued and thus make the divide wider. Pick up the phone a la Bob Hoskins stylee chaps!

  23. wwwaaaaaaaagggghghhhhh.

    First Phil & Phill, now this. The festive 12 is going to be a difficult listen this year.

    All I need now is for Helen and Oly to fall out, and I might actually have to pay for something to listen to….

    I’m off to gofasterstripe, the value of certain CD’s might be going up…..

  24. I’ve only been a C&H listener since about #132ish, and as sad as it sounds, in that time getting a new podcast has become one of my favourite parts of the week. I have been listening to the old ones as well – so at least I still have those to finish. Selfishly I will say hopefully you can sort it out before I run out of old ones!

    Anyway, I’ve become a big fan of both of you separately but for me it’s always best when you are together. Would love to see/hear you do some more stuff together when you’re ready, whatever it is.

  25. I have to confess I’ve not heard the show or podcasts, but respect the openness and honesty here. Just hope you both sort it out, and probably best to do this privately (imo). All the best to the both of you.

  26. I just don’t know what to listen to on the train anymore.
    Good luck with the 6 Music Andrew, perhaps this hiatus will allow you to both come back to the podcast (before the winter please), and make it even better.

  27. This is genuinely sad. I fear I may becoming one of those mentals who believes celebrities are their friends.

  28. Gosh. This is a tricky one. Full of twists and potentially false or distracting diversions…

    ,,,in fact, it feels like a real MORAL MAZE…

    So, can we decide whether, in taking on the 6Music Saturday morning slot with a different co-presenter, Andrew has acted morally, immorally or amorally?

    (or do we not really understand the difference between amoral and immoral?)

  29. Ah, I think both of you are great. Am sure that when the dust is settled, the friendship will find a way.

    I’m sad this summer won’t be enhanced by your combined talents but wish you both well. I am a long time admirer of Richard’s comedy and I worked with Andrew on EastEnders way back when, so know his talent and that he is a genuinely lovely man too.

    I hope you’ll work together again and also that you’ll be friends too- that friendship always clearly transcended everything else. And I don’t like it when Mum and Dad fight.

    Good luck to you both in all you do. You’re both talented and I’ll stop now because I’m repeating myself (script editor’s worst crime!)

  30. I was really dismayed and upset when I heard Rich hadn’t been asked back. The ratings don’t lie, C&H were very popular and much beloved of the majority of 6 Music listeners.

    I understand why Andrew chose to take up the offer to do a 5 week stint with another co-host – he’s a freelancer, work is thin on the ground lately (especially at the BBC) and it’s understandable that he didn’t want to turn down an offer of work from a regular employer like 6 Music – but I really cannot understand why they’ve given Josie Long the role of co-host when I can think of several people who would be immeasurably better as Andrew’s co-host. I don’t think she comes across well on radio, and, on a personal level, I don’t rate her as a comedian (hey, comedy is subjective and i’m expressing my opinion), which will have a big impact given the comedy bent that slot has. I can only guess that she was approached because management think she might attract new, female listeners.

    I will listen in on Saturday because I very much enjoy Andrew’s broadcasts and want to support him, but I will miss Richard greatly.

    I hope Andrew and Rich can overcome this and repair their friendship (“bum and make up” as someone on twitter sweetly said). They are a pair of very ace people and I shall miss their broadcasts, both in podcast and network radio form.

  31. I’m finding this all really sad guys, you two are so fantastic together and I really hope you find a way to make it work again, I listened to you guys all through your time filling the a&j slot and you were so much fun to listen to and your podcasts well before and after that point have kept me going through some really not fun times. I respect the fact that you’re having real problems and you need time to sort them out but PLEASE don’t let this be the end – it all feels so gloomy at the moment like a real divorce (trust me). Richard remains the only comic I have gone to see live (aiotm and it was awesome).

    You two need to stay together, at least for the sake of the children, for what would we fans do without you? Helen and olly just aren’t the same and phil and phill are gone and anyway they never showed your shared committment to podcasting.

    Really do love you guys and I just wanted to share my support for you both in all you do together and apart (but especially together!). Keeping my fingers fervently crossed.

  32. I find it interesting that we find ourselves so upset about this break up. I think its a consequence of the intimate nature of the podcast, that however many thousand of us really feel a part of this friendship and so it really isnt nice to see two old mates having the ‘ump with each other.

    …like a bridge over troubled water…

  33. Why don’t all three of you do it? If you and Richard fall out, Josie can bang your heads together! To be honest, I thought the point of 6music was the music……

  34. Whatever the rights and wrongs, the most important thing is that you two work perfectly as a double act. Your podcasts regularly make me laugh out loud more than anything else I listen to.

    I hope that you can get over this and come back to us soon. What you have together is too good to waste.

    And I don’t care what you say Richard, children always feel guilty when their parents split up. If we all turn into animal torturers and serial killers IT WILL BE YOUR FAULT !

  35. I have fond memories of seeing the first (I think) live C&H podcast at the Duke of York’s Brighton, featuring (I think) the debut of live Secret Dancing a few years back, not to mention the hundreds of hours of free entertainment. I think I will miss most the little insights into the real lives of C&H, as well as the constant threat of a bumming. I think if Adam & Joe fell out I would need counselling in the style of a bereft Take That fan circa 96 or whenever it was.

  36. Can’t imagine Andrew would have been very pleased if Richard had asked somebody else to go and do the upcoming Edingburgh podcasts with him.

    • I think there’s a slight difference though. 6Music obviously think Andrew fits the bill and mustn’t think Richard is what they want right now. So while I appreciate it must feel like a bit of a kick in the pants for Richard in terms of 6Music not wanting him back, I think it’s a little churlish to expect Andrew to refuse paid work. After all, this is how he makes money so he can eat.

      I’m always against putting money before friends but Andrew doesn’t appear to have stabbed Richard in the back to get the job. 6Music want him to return and that’s not his fault! I think had he refused 6Music’s offer it would have been Richard’s job as a friend to tell him to not refuse the work on his account. Especially as 6Music is Andrew’s domain.

      As for 6Music not wanting Richard, I think it’s their loss because Richard has gone from strength to strength recently.

  37. When my company needs to explain a decision to the marketplace, this is NOT done by each individual that was involved in the decision putting out his or her own press statement.

    On the other hand, who is worse? C&H? Or us, in our suits and ties?

  38. I love the podcast, but the atmosphere between you has been noticably strained of late – and so, whilst it’s hard to acknowledge it, perhaps now is a good time to call it a day?

    I’d rather have 166 great episodes in the bank than another 166 where your chemistry dissolves more noticeably.

    Or, why not try doing them monthly?

  39. > perhaps by way of an apology Andrew, its time to finally submit to what Richard wants, more than anything else?

    I agree. With clips please! It’d be a great first audio podcast back, and you could stick the video version as an extra on one of Richard’s DVDs. 🙂

  40. I hope the break does you both good. Andrew has the radio show. Rich has his script, his Edinburgh show to finish off as well as a ridiculous run of solo Edinburgh podcasts.

    The main reason to stick together is to avoid the legal fees that will be incurred making sure the other one gets custody of me.

    But no matter if the podcasts have a future or not (and we all hope they will be back in September, if not before), I hope your long-term friendship won’t be affected.

    Why oh why oh why does it have to be Collings & Herrin? Why can’t it be Legge and the other one?

    Andy McH

  41. It’s Graham Tugwell I feel sorry for. What will he count now that all we have left is Pretend Podcasts from 2006?

    In all seriousness though, I hope this bump in the road is quickly put behind you and even if the C&H Podcasts doesn’t resume, then I hope your friendship does.

    Thank you for all of the hours of laughs over the years.


  42. Andrew, I’m glad you put this back up. You notice Richard didn’t take his down. You should both have your say.

    I hope you work it out, but you can’t turn down work to spare someone’s feelings. I found the end of your last 6Music run with Richard very difficult. He was aggressive, and well, kind of mean. I hope it goes well with Josie. Good luck!

  43. Can see both sides and kinda guessed what was going on and how Richard would feel about it.

    Difficult for Andrew, 6Music being the main provider. Ultimately I think I would have done what RH suggests and not taken the same slot – but it’s difficult to say whether I would definitely be able to turn down work when I look at my bank statement and my mortgage bill. You gotta pay the bills.

    A dilemma, I’m not taking sides, just hope you guys remain friends. Everything else that you do – the work you put out – should be secondary to that.

    All the best…. and yes, a very modern way of coimmunicating… just like when I argue with my teenagers on facebook!

  44. Well, I have loved the C+H podcasts for a long time. And I loved the 6Music shows ‘filling in’ for A&J too. And I own ‘Hitler Mustache’ and ‘Secret Dancing’ DVDs and any number of duo and solo related books/things. The beauty of all these things is the sense of fun throughout, even in the seemingly more tense moments ‘on air’..if the fun has gone due to this decision then its sad. If it can be reinstated then so much the better. I miss the two of you riffing and bickering. The fact that I’m now trawling blog comments for my C+H fix should speak volumes for how much I need my comedy fix. I and thousands like me will mourn further if it’s gone forever. (But then we’ll grow some balls, pick ourselves up and learn to live with that decision too.)

  45. It’s helpful to see that any labour of love that involves friends working together is difficult no matter who you are, how experienced, how successful the project and how effortless you can make it look by doing it well.

    The fact that there are hurt feelings and crossed wires even between yourselves is weirdly comforting for any of us who have tried, or are trying, to do something ambitious with friends and have faced similar problems on the way – it’s because it comes with the territory. So yeah, in a way that can’t be at all pleasant for either of you, thanks a lot for sharing.

  46. I don’t really understand why it is ok for Andrew to work with other people but just not within a 3 hour? time slot on a Saturday. That seems irrational to me. However I understand it may be different if it was me in that situation.

    I’m missing the podcasts anyway, hope you come back soon!

  47. So suddenly after 165 (ish) x 1hr 6mins (ish) of fun it all gets a bit serious. I can see the arguments from both sides but that’s not really for anyone to comment on. I hope you guys sort it out for the sake of your own relationship but also cos otherwise from now on life will just be that little more dull for thousands of men and a select few women.

  48. I’m actually relieved you guys are spending a bit of time away from each other. You both seem to have more on your plates these days (I may be wrong), and to be honest I’ve been worried that the work/stress would take its toll on the podcast. It’s good to hear the old Pretend Podcasts for the first time and discover how it started, and look forward to when you get back together with more love/respect for each other than ever before – much like Sideshow Bob promised to take a break elsewhere while his fiancee Selma watched MacGyver and come back with more love for her than ever before, shortly before he tried to murder her.

    In all seriousness, as a longtime fan I hope you guys pull through.

  49. “I was never going to be a part of AIOTM…”
    (…aside, I WAS going to be a part of AIOTM)

  50. I work in a double act and I’ve found the best way for us two to remain friends is to continually fail to get work.

    I hope you sort out your friendship above all. I’ve read both your explanations… and you’re both right and both wrong… but ultimately it’s the BBC who were wrong. What were they thinking? Whoever suggested this in the first place must have been a troublesome and insensitve type.

    Best wishes to you both.

  51. It’s a sad time, but compleatly understandable. Hats off to you both for being so honest. I was on the PBH free fringe with you last August-“In the Meantime…” sketch comedy at Cabaret Voltaire, (catching your show when the sound went down- we even had a conversation about it on the street later that day) and you’d made a fair fist of a tricky situation. I do a weekly film podcast (Screen 3 Movie Podcast), nothing too professional, but with a similar format to you and Richard (though talking films rather than news) and it’s safe to say that we probably wouldn’t have attempted anything like it had it not have been for your weekly output. We’re even doing a live podcast at the Camden Fringe this August, sighting you guys as partial inspiration in our press release. Long story short -too late- I think that this break might do you good, even though you may feel the contrary deep down. But stay friends, for f**k’s sake, as chemistry like you guys have, through good times or bad, is worth keeping in some form. Even if you never cast together again, I’d like to know that funny or depressing or obscure conversations, like you guys have, are going on somewhere. Best of luck. (P.S: free ticket to our Camden live podcast going, if you want it!)

  52. Good luck to you Andrew and Richard.Hope you can sort things out , but if it has to end then so be it.Thanks for all the stuff you have given us for nowt.Its been a great journey.
    Bad week for comedy.First Phil and Phil, next AIOTM(aiotm) and now C&H.Pappys is going to have to up its game to fill a void that big……

  53. When I saw the original title for this blog entry – The Break-Up – I must admit I was rather upset. The C&H podcast has been a much-loved staple of my life for years now. But I think that’s just me being a bit selfish. I love the podcast for the funny, tumultuous but always fundamentally honest dynamic between Andrew and Richard, and if time out helps to preserve that relationship, I will be a happy man. The return of the podcast would be an added bonus.

    Now I must go, these grains of rice don’t count themselves.

    Graham Tugwell.

    • Ironically, I only called it The Break-Up because I am in the middle of writing a piece for Radio Times about Jennifer Aniston. Looked a bit melodramatic afterwards!

  54. Looking forward to your work with Josie. She’s great and so’s Richard. I love you all!

  55. I’m hoping the make up podcast will include the phrase ‘You had me on “fucking idiot”‘

    Regardless – I’ve enjoyed the podcast since the beginning, it’s had me in stitches, got me dragging unwitting friends to live shows. So thank you both, and like Jim C said, I think I’ve become one of those weirdos that thinks you’re my friends or something.

  56. Like many others, I do hope this is just a temporary break and the C&H podcast is back soon.

  57. Gutted,so you were ‘actually’ offended by the material about you in AIOTM?( although to be honest I should imagine I would be myself).My only concern however cathartic this feels surely it may well damage your relationship further? Also it smacks of something I used to do when I was too afraid to approach a girl I fancied/fallen out with? Sort it out! I recommend some oversize boxing gloves and a small ring.That said good luck with the radio show I will be listening and if you’re reading this Richard good luck with comedy festival.

  58. I hope this isn’t the end … Collings and Herrin is mah favourite podcast by a mile. It’s a pity that this fracture has occurred, hopefully it will repair in due course. Good luck to both of you during this hiatus.

    I flew from Dublin to London especially too see C&H100 at The Leicester Square Theatre last year. It was brilliant, so glad I did. Thanks for the memories.

  59. Partnerships of all kinds hit rough patches when one of the partners goes through (or has enforced on them) a change which then impacts on the other. I see it all the time in my work. If you can both keep sight of what you liked about each other in the first place, you’ll eventually get some equilibrium back. But a bit of time apart for you to each lick your respective wounds is in order. Don’t try licking each other’s, not just yet anyway.

    Sorry this has come about in this way, Andrew – as, I am sure, are you.

  60. “But a bit of time apart for you to each lick your respective wounds is in order.”

    I’ve just had a horrid mental image involving Andrew, Rich and a tortoise with a hole cut in its shell. Do you remember? Do you? The story of the tortoise with a hole in its shell?

  61. The most important thing is your personal friendship – I would always choose that over any kind of ‘obligation’ you feel to Collings & Herrin fans. It seems like you and Richard are great friends in real life, and I’d feel awful if I thought that I (as a fan of your work together) had in any way contributed to the breakdown of your friendship.

    I hope you sort it out and have many more years of silliness!

  62. This is ridiculous. I cant believe that I am genuinely upset by this.

    Jim C and Sarah are right, we think we are your friends. My wife has already said she’s keeping Andrew (I should never have bought her Secret Dancing) and I will continue my slightly weird obsession with Warming Up.

    If you do restart the podcasts I hope you do it because you’ve genuinely reconciled. Its never healthy to get back together just for the kids sake.

  63. Damn it Hickson, pull your finger out and record a new podcast! We need all we can get now. What with the demise of The Ten and now C and H all we have left are The Trap Sodcast and Trev & Simon. I’ve always been more of a Collins man meself, and fear Richard may be acting like the worst sort of silly arse over this. Make it up, chaps.

  64. I’ll miss the “Collins & Herring, Collins & Herring, Collins & Herring ….duh, duh” jingle most.

  65. “When my company needs to explain a decision to the marketplace, this is NOT done by each individual that was involved in the decision putting out his or her own press statement.”

    C&H aren’t really a company! They can address each other in public if they so wish, surely.

    If it was the Beeb who made it clear Richard wouldn’t be invited back then I can’t really see Andrew’s decision as being disloyal. It seems a bit much to ask him to fall on his sword for the sake of Richard’s pride. I just read Richard’s book in which he freely admits to being oversensitive at times. Perhaps this might be such an occasion?
    With apologies for guessing at the emotional state of someone I don’t know in the least outside of the pages of one memoir!

  66. Listening to the “pretend podcasts” I was shocked by how far you were pushing it on the radio! Wait, not shocked, impressed. It reminded me of why I fell in love with Collings and Herrin in the first place. So I hope, and am sure, everything will be alright. Anyway, I’m excited about the shows with Josie Long in the meantime!

  67. I started listening early on – probably about week 20 or so, and although it was often difficult to hear, I stuck with it, downloaded all the ones I’d missed and have been listening every week, ever since.
    The podcast has changed in the past year or so – Herring no longer seems to be playing the ‘Herrin’ character that would interject and mock Collings, instead we get long and tedious tales from the real ‘Herring’ about how someone annoyed him at a theatre – Andrew tries to read a news story, but Richard doesn’t even bother to listen or comment anymore.
    The early ones about Gaunty or Maddie or Mrs Collings or bumming or calling people c*nts were fun to listen to – but a man going on at length about a minor disagreement with someone on Nottingham isn’t fun, or funny.

    Why did I keep listening?
    Probably the same reason you kept doing them – routine, obligation, maybe a sense of loyalty.. who knows. Maybe I expected it would get funny again?


  68. Nnnnoooooooooo! (sinks to knees in pouring rain as camera pans up from above)

    This is the worst thing ever…………..Aside………………

    Seems a bit churlish on Richards part to deny Andrew a revenue source when Richard has £ coming in from all directions.
    Maybe 6music was listening all those times when Richard publically said he didn’t care about the 6music show!!!!!!!!

    I never thought my favourite podcast would end because of Richard getting in a huff – always assumed it would be Andrew! Maybe he isn’t that bad after all.

    Not sure how you can continue but I hope you do because even though both of you have reservations about how the podcast and relationship has evolved what you have is rare and special (in a non gay way, although………)

  69. Lets celebrate some real laugh out loud moments from the kings of the pod…. Moments that got people staring in my direction as i genuinely (sic) spat my coffee across a train carriage (more than once).. Tell Sid I came.. Woody Allen is a …. To name but two.. Hopefully the love of the nerds (me included) and a good rest will help you rediscover the love for each other.. Not taking sides in any way as i’ll listen to anything the two of you put up for our ears.

  70. I just hope you guys can can get the podcast flowing again in less than three years…as this is when my stock of Collings and Herrin runs dry… then what am I going to entertain my new born baby with? (Actually, I’m going to be a Dad for the first time in about two months…but you get the idea).

  71. I get the feeling this is the end of the C+H podcast as we know it. That is fine, it had to end sometime. I have enjoyed listening to them all. Some great moments over the episodes, so thanks to both of them for that.

    I can understand if RH is pissed off for not being asked back to the 6music show, but I can’t see any reason why Andrew should turn down work from one of his main employers. If he only ever appeared in that slot with RH then I would get it, but as he appears across the schedule and often on his own (and occassionally with others) then I dont.

    Any chance of getting the day the music died back?

  72. Now seems the perfect time to break the glass on my never-before-listened-to emergency copy of Earth, Wind and Fire (and Water).

    I hope service is resumed shortly!

  73. Thankyou for putting this up and all of the podcasts and broadcasting I’ve had the pleasure of hearing over the years. It is a shame that the history of Collins and Herring in 100 objects won’t be completed, but I look forwards to hearing you and Josie in July

  74. It is really strange you both feel like friends (or perhaps just acquaintances) and I never like seeing friends fall out, but I think as many have said that perhaps this is a good thing to clear the air, to take a break from each other.
    And I don’t believe that I am going to say this, but perhaps you shouldn’t work together so often maybe just a monthly podcast, or maybe just the occasional thing, otherwise it ends up being like working with your wife, you love them, but they do end up winding you up! Little things get blown out of all proportion, and big things, well are not easy to deal with.
    I think you would agree that Richard has every right to be upset and angry, whether he should be angry at you, I can’t say, not knowing all the facts, but he should be rather ####ed off with 6music, he did so much for them, you both did, maybe they should have just moved you both to a later slot…

    Anyway, make sure that you get the friendship back to where it was last year before you even consider working together again, or maybe you will decide your friendship is too important to risk being with the ‘podcast Richard’ and maybe, just maybe you should end it on a high. I really hope not though as I have been a massive fan since the beginning have all the CD’s, DVD’s to show some support to you both. But if this is the end at least you have both left us these.

    Best of luck.

  75. You better get your shit together or I’m going to blow up Robin Hood Airport. Or something.

  76. You must sort it out between the two of you. Whatever happens I would like to thank the both of you for all the hard work and excellent material you have put out over the years. I have thoroughly enjoyed it all and would like to wish you both every success in the future, which selfishly I hope may contain some C&H stuff. Thank you.

  77. Andrew brought Richard to 6 all those years ago. From the station’s perspective, I’d imagine that Richard is still seen as “Andrew’s friend” and always will be. Andrew has a place at the station without Richard; Richard does not have one without Andrew. This sort of thing happens in companies all the time and it always complicates things.

    It’s just my opinion but Richard could never be solo presenter on 6. On paper I’d say that Josie Long might be a contender. She’s certainly a better fit. (That’s not to do Richard down at all; it’s just how it strikes me.) The station is surely looking for talent it can use in contexts outside of just one show.

    That said, I’ve no doubt it was the podcast that got the pair the A&J spot. Perhaps that should be seen as a special case. Perhaps that is Richard’s slot as much as it’s Andrew’s (ahem). Perhaps they won it together, equally. I can see how Richard might feel that 6 have kicked him in the teeth. And I can see how he might feel let down if Andrew is going to carry on in that slot with someone else.

    But that’s to start from the position that what we have here is the return of the all-conquering Andrew and Richard show, only with Richard taken out and replaced with Josie. Whereas, what we actually have, surely, is a radio station just playing around and trying different things and different people and seeing what works. That’s what the Andrew and Richard show was, and it’s what the Andrew and Josie show will be.

    It’s not hard to see why 6 would want to use Andrew in this show. And it’s not hard to see why they want to try Josie out as a presenter. It doesn’t have to be the beginning of anything; or the end of anything else. This is just a different thing, isn’t it?

  78. When they make a BBC Four biopic of the Collins and Herring partnership in thirty years time, a small but significant scene at the end of the first act will feature Richard covering Dave Gorman’s Sunday morning show on Absolute Radio with Danielle Ward a year or so back.

    This will foreshadow the current brouhaha, and lend dramatic irony to the mid-section of the drama as Andrew questions Richard – in a scene that may never have happened – as to whether taking on that temporary gig will mean the end of the partnership and podcast.

  79. I want to thank you both for making your positions known and let you know that if you start up Collings and Herrin again, I will listen. I’ve listened to C & H faithfully since about episode 30 and it’s opened up a whole new world of comedy for a Canadian girl who previously had to make due with the poor quality of American sitcoms. I hope this isn’t the end.

  80. Very sorry to hear about your tiff- I’ve been a big fan of your combined work for a long time. You guys produce something that is entirely unique and groundbreaking. If he doesn’t come round soon, the utilitarian response would be to offer to let him bum you.

  81. There’s always been a touch of the Pete ‘n’ Dud about your relationship. Didn’t something like this happen to them?

    Hope it works out better for you.

  82. Sad news for sure, but life goes on!

    Andrew you appear to have blocked me on twitter and I’m really not sure why. We have never had ‘words’, I had no warning of the block (not that I have a right to one). I can only think that I may have been guilty of being over familiar with a ‘ stranger’ if that is the case, please except my applogy and please let me follow you again.

  83. The fact that there are over 100 (mostly) positive comments on here shows the affection people have for you both.

    As others have said, I almost feel like you are my friends (I know you’re not really, honest, but that shows the affection you have inspired).

    The honest nature of both your recent blogs is typical of how you have approached the whole project. It almost feels like watching two friends splitting up rather than some showbiz thing.

    Anyway, after nearly 200 hours of free entertainment I’d just like to say thanks.

    Please don’t stay together for the sake of the children.

  84. I am genuinely sad by all this, but after listening to all the podcasts from 6 music and the attic it’s clear that Richard was quite disdainful of the 6 gig. Constant checking of iPhones, not listening to Andrew etc. In both podcasts Richard crossed the bullying line too often. You can’t play the sensitive and overconfident cards whenever it suits you. 6 is Andrews bread and butter. I can’t blame him for saying yes or the BBC for not wanting Richard back. But I really miss the (pre-2011 style) C H podcasts and I look forward to a new start soon.

  85. Now you guys can have some of that good ol’ break-up=to-make sex that you guys have been hankerin’ for all this time.

    You guys will get over this tiff.

    Just remember to rubber up.

  86. Well this is depressing…

    Big fan of both you guys so I’m fairly disappointed to see a relationship deteriorate over something as trivial as this. Seems to me that, to some extent, Andrew was already an employee of 6 music and wasn’t attached to Richard under the scope of his employment with the BBC.

    However I’m sure this is probably an over simplified version of accounts to appease your fans.

    Best of luck to both of you in your future endeavours ,whether they be solo or in tandem!

  87. Sorry to repeat what’s already been said so many times, but just wanted to add my very best wishes to both of you. I hope the break will help remind you what a great partnership you have. I also think it’s sweet to see just how many people care about this podcast and your friendship in general. Good luck for the next few weeks or months and we all hope to see you working together again very soon.

  88. I just finished reading ‘Furious Love’ – a very long book about the amazingly tumultuous relationship between Elizabeth Taylor and Richard Burton. That book didn’t make me feel nearly as emotional as this blog post and (the other) Richard’s reply. Holding you guys in the light until it’s all worked out.

    Aside – my first thought when I read about the new Saturday show was – 6 Music finally realised that women can be co-presenters too!

  89. Bin off 6 music, kiss with tongues, take C&H on the road and make up the lost fees. I think after all the free comedy we have enjoyed over the years it’s time for us to pay up. Think about it, 10 venues, 100 people at each, that’s nearly £100 a night.

  90. Sad news, shall hope for a reconciliation (not in a selfish Where-Is-My-Podcast way). In the meantime, even the Wu-Tang did some of their best work as solo acts ( Liquid Swords being #1 IMHO) :-). Hope new show , and Richard’s Edinburgh pods, go well.

  91. For both of you: What other ‘celebs’ would ever do anything like this? You guys don’t realise how good it is to be fans of yours! We aren’t owed any sort of explanations at all…it’s lovely that you have both taken the time to write them but, seriously, do what you’ve got to do.
    Thank you Thank you Thank you both of you for the awesome and entertaining podcasts. Keep doing all your good works no matter what direction it takes you in…
    (Although I have 6 stamps on a caffe nero card so wondering if this is the first time in a year that I may actually be able to claim the free drink for myself and not save the card up to send as podcast payment…ooh the possibilities!Think it’ll be a mocha…)
    Cheers – Jane

  92. So sad, I consecutively listened to all your C&H podcasts from number 1 – whatever you were up to by February this year over my summer on an orchard way down here in New Zealand and like many others feel like a friend of both of you in a creepy stalkerish kind of way.

    I really hope you guys can restore your friendship. Best of luck to both of you.

  93. I’m very sad to hear about the break up of C&H. Like many others I feel that Richard is being a little precious about things. Andrew’s main income seems to be 6music so I can understand him taking this chance with Josie. Hopefully Richard and Andrew’s friendship will stay intact and they can resolve their differences. If this is the end, I’d like to say thanks for the many hours of fun I’ve had over the last few years. No matter what you both do in the future, try and remain friends.

  94. Thanks for all the hours of free entertainment you two have given me over the past few years. Collings and Herrin was the first podcasts I ever listened to and played a big role in influencing my tastes in comedy.

    I hope that whatever the outcome of your separation you are happy and remain friends.

  95. Thanks for all the hours of free entertainment you two have given me over the past few years. Collings and Herrin was the first podcast I ever listened to and played a big role in influencing my tastes in comedy.

    I hope that whatever the outcome of your separation you are happy and remain friends.

  96. Andrew Collins will be the Kevin Greening to Josie’s Zoe Ball. I think deep down even Andrew knows this. Without uttering a word on the station, it’s pretty clear she has a long future there.

    All seems a great shame, I used to love making Sunday dinner to the 6music Sunday show and followed the podcasts ever since.

    I think this has probably finished C&H as we know it. It always felt like the original podcasts were a means to an end, they begat AIOTM and helped raise Richard’s profile, and they aided Andrew’s climb back on to 6music.

    The Adam and Joe thing was their big chance but I think the writing was on the wall when 6 didn’t seem to find a permanent berth for C&H – a Saturday or Sunday PM slot. If 6Music didn’t feel it was worth that, then there was no paid future for the pair.

    Now where do they go – not sure there is much left for them to do, unless Absolute or weekend evenings on Talksport in the Russell Brand slot (I mean, George Lamb??!) come calling. Interestingly, taking calls from the public on things might be a nice new vehicle for them, it worked well in the short-lived Danny Baker podcast, and it might freshen the act up a bit.

    In the light of all that seems to be going on it was nice that Andrew still managed to be on the last AIOTM.

    I can only see them as slightly uncomfortable talking heads commenting on “the podcast boom” on “I love 2009” on BBC2 HD in the summer of 2029. Stuart Maconie will do the voice over, I’d expect.

  97. Well I think it’s a lovely blog.
    I must admit I stopped listening to C&H, and then later to the 6 music show because I like and respect you both, but I just can’t cope with the “podcast” richard herring, as it were, my poor, exhausted aspie brain can’t quite differentiate. But I suppose I am pleased you are working it out. I like it when people are friends.

  98. Adam and Joe, Gay-I-Bottomer (Gay-I-Bottomer!) and Collings & Herrin are all ending together, in their different ways. I think that simultaneity is a big part of it.

  99. It feels a bit strange writing this when I don’t know you, and have only met Richard briefly at two of his shows. However, for some inexplicable reason, I do feel the need to actually write about this.

    From the versions of events presented by both you and Richard, I can see why he might be offended. At the same time, I can also see why you see no real problem; you’ve been asked by the station to work on a show with a particular format, and you’ve said yes because, frankly, you can’t really turn down the work. Professional attachments don’t last forever. You don’t work with Stuart Maconie any more, and Richard hasn’t worked with Stuart Lee for a number of years (benefit one-offs aside). It’s a shame. i’ve enjoyed the podcasts, but I’ve also liked Fist of Fun, TMWRNJ and Rich’s solo material. I’ve enjoyed you on 6music and didn’t even mind the business with the squirrels in Word. Everything has a time and a place. And if Collings and Herrin has run its course, then so be it.

    What is more important is that, if you are the mates you thought you were, you don’t lose that over a work issue that is, in the greater scheme of your lives and careers, not really all that important. You didn’t do the podcast to make a fortune. It seems that it was two blokes having a bit of a laugh, hoping it might some other people laugh and perhaps making a few quid into the bargain. In other words: a side project. Over the last couple of months, things have gotten tired on the podcast. This is probably because you were both tired; it had stopped being fun and had become a job. And it all had to fit in with the real business of both of you paying the bills and working on your own projects.

    As both you and Richard have said, you’ve both got more than plenty of your own work to go on with right now (which may not be unconnected), so just go and get on with it. If you miss the podcast, you might think about about it later. If you miss each other’s company (oh! the bromance of it all) then you’ll both be sensible enough to sort that out. In the end, what we as fans want is not important. If you and Richard allow this issue to get in the way of your friendship, then perhaps that friendship wasn’t quite as strong as you both thought it was. If that friendship is strong, then this will pass and things will be OK, podcast or not. And that’s the most important thing, isn’t it?

  100. Andrew — After reading both yours and Richard’s comments on the topic, it doesn’t seem like you’ve been anything less than forthright and reasonable.

    Your double act shouldn’t be a ball and chain on either of your careers, and Richard’s view that appearing in the 6 Music slot with another presenter is violating some sacred trust is quite odd… that he feels you should have asked for his permission or blessing to take this job is out of line.

    I wonder if this is just Richard blurring the line between reality (you’re both professionals on an equal footing) and the fantasy dominance of Collings over Herrin. What’s next, bumming?!

  101. The only real way to decide this is to have a wrestle naked from the waist down 🙂

    On a serious note, I love you both, and am really grateful for the amount of entertainment you have given me in the past, you’ve both got me through some difficult periods of my life.

  102. I have to say that Richard appears to be taking a rather arrogant and precious attitude to this. Surely as an entertainer he must understand that marketing and fickle audiences have an influence on presenter choice on a national radio station? The hectoring, disinterested and arrogant stance he adopted on 6 music clearly went down poorly with the 6 music audience for the station to have ditched him. For 6 music to have to ask Andrew to continue with another co host surely showed that they identified Richard as the part of the show thst was problematic. C&H Richard is great on the C&H podcast that one can choose to listen to when you at leisure, but it’s just out of place at 10am on Saturday; that presumably is why he has been dropped.
    In such a potentially transient career as entertainment or journalism it would be stupid for Andrew to turn down high profile, regular work and it is invonsiderste of Richard not to understand that the reality of mortgage may have to take priority over his sensitivity. Ffs Richard, try understanding that even your friends may have higher priorities than not bruising your ego. You are not coming out of this at all well. You should back down and apologise for your arrogance and consider that most of your resurgence has been down to the audience gained by the free stuff you do (you know this, otherwise you would have paywalled it ages ago). By petulantly provoking the hiatus in C&H and stopping Aiotm (aiotm) you are only harming your own popularity.

  103. Well, bugger.

    I knew something was amiss when the podcast didn’t update in iTunes.

    This is why we can’t have nice things – on a weekly basis. You two need to stop being silly billies and make up and be friends otherwise you can both go to your rooms without any coffee and cake. You owe us for all the years of clicking a button to download free entertainment! We almost might have paid a pound too!

    There are people in Africa possibly starving for podcast entertainment you know!

  104. Thank you for writing this, Andrew. You didn’t have to, and I respect you for it. I have to admit I miss the sunny banter you two used to have and I have felt uncomfortable with the way the podcast has sometimes sounded in more recent times. I hope you do get your equilibrium as a duo back but if not, bloody hell- we’d be churlish to be dissatisfied with the amount of free stuff you’ve given us already.

    …If C&H is no go, any chance of you and Mr Maconie being on again, someday? 😉

  105. Truth is that 3 years was way too much . I liked it until 2010 ,and “stuck with it ” thereafter but it really dropped off in terms of quality. I found Richard’s ” character ” pretty grating. However 2 years of decent stuff in a vehicle which was , I presume , designed to gain or maintain public profile is surely a good run ? And of course it was free – so thanks !! AC always seemed a really good guy , but does it require this cessation require this much handwringing ? Found the blog and ( particularly ) Richard’s response embarrasing to be truthful. But of course I still read every word, so like I say – the project worked.

  106. I’ve found the honesty and emotion, from all parties and comments, here really touching. It’s hard to understand why really: although I’ve ‘followed’ Andrew’s career for longer than I care to remember I was never that into the podcasts and admittedly tune prefer to tune in to 6 for him rather than him and Richard (whose comedic talents I find admirable individually). 6 has always been about music and Andrew fits that bill perfectly for me, so it seems like this will be a very different slot being filled with Josie than with Richard, regardless of the time of day.
    Having said that, it’s obvious there’s a genuine affection and friendship between you and hearing how that has been affected saddens me. I genuinely hope you work through this and find yourselves in a happier, more comfortable space with one another, whether that means maintaining a solely personal relationship or redeveloping a professional one.
    This is not the best comment I’ve ever left on this blog but I just wanted to share my best wishes.

  107. I’m glad you’ve discussed this issue and I appreciate your honesty. You both have valid points, and I can only hope that the two of you come to the conclusion that your working relationship, and more importantly your friendship, is worth continuing. You work so well as a team and I thank you for all your hard work and dedication.

  108. Your podcast used to be one of the cultural highlights of my week (I know, how pathetic is that?) but in the last six months it has gone from downloading and listening to it the moment it was available, to sticking it on my iPod and maybe switching it on if I needed something to pass the time during a particularly long commute.
    I think my attention waned in direct proportion to Richard’s own seeming interest in wanting to do the show. As others have mentioned, his so called ‘persona’ began to seem a little too real, a little too often. I guess you could say that all this means is that is some ways Richard carried the show, which would be fair up to a point but I also think Andrew Collins has been one of the great comedy straight men with this podcast.
    It does seem from my perspective that Richard is being a little precious but as the man has provided me with top notch free entertainment for the last three or so years, I’m not going to begrudge him that.
    I want to say thank you to the both of you for some fantastic entertainment over the last few years, and I sincerely wish the two of you the best of luck in future endeavours, be they together, solo, or working with other people

  109. Fix your friendship and do it quickly as these things are always tougher the longer they’re left. Nowt else matters.

  110. I’d listened to the podcast from the very first episode wayback when, but I have to agree that at some point (perhaps around a year ago, maybe a little more) it started to change into a direction I wasn’t comfortable as a listener and I unsubscribed. I started did listen to a few of the 6 Music shows but I found something missing.

    I think everyone goes through good and bad times with their friends, it just happens in this case you had to do a radio show and a podcast each week, rather than what usually happens, where one tells the other to fuck off, both don’t talk for a few weeks and then make up again.

    I have to back Andrew on his stance of taking the Saturday morning job one, I’m afraid work is work and while it’s unfortunate that it’s the same slot and so soon, it’s definitely for the best in terms of your friendship to have a break anyway.

    Go your separate ways for a while, maybe even don’t speak for a few weeks and then eventually get your friendship, and ultimately professional relationship, back on track. The former being far more important than the latter.

    All the best to you both.

  111. My worry is that this situation is too close to the sort of thing that is a root of a lot of the Humour in the C&H partnership.
    Once the disloyalty, power balance, colleague/friend issues become real rather than the joke then the joke might not seem so funny afterwards.

    To be honest, for purely selfish reasons, I wish you’d sorted this out in private.

  112. If this is the end then thank you for all the hours of entertainment that you have provided (and thank you even if it isn’t the end). My uninformed and probably wrong opinion is that this sort of situation had been brewing for a while because of the way that your double act developed. I would imagine that most double acts think very cardefully about their individual roles within the partnership and maybe also try to ensure that their onstage and offstage selves are completely seperate. Because your work as a double act is nearly all unplanned and unscripted and because in a way you are working as a double act even when you are apart through twitter, blogs, AIOTM etc, maybe you have ended up with two different sets of rules for how your double act works. If you do decide to continue working together then maybe you need to have a discussion about exactly what each of you thinks that these rules are. Of course this may destroy the magic and ruin the podcasts. The weird and impossible to define line between what you really think and what you are just saying because it is funny or inappropriate or both is what makes the double act brilliant. But this is surely a risk worth taking to remain friends. Anway, I’m sure that you couldn’t give a fuck what I think (apart from maybe the first sentence) so bye and all the best for the future.

  113. Ten Years ago I was working with a chap both doing music/audio he was the much more talented then moi but could not organise a piss up in a pub and was always broke, so thinking as a friend (known him since 11 years of age) I paid for additional licences a. to help him and b. to help us progress on a similar road.. did it work nope a phone call of abuse and six months silence. We do get on now and the chap in question is still a v good friend but I do understand the hurt from such a misunderstanding

  114. I was saddened to discover that C&H were breaking up, even if it is a temporary thing. It was a reminder that sooner or later all good things must come to an end. If I didn’t enjoy your podcasts so much, this wouldn’t be a problem for me, but as has been said before by previous commenters, I feel that you are both my friends. Obviously that’s insane, but I care for you both. All content put out by the C&H duo have been highlights of my week, so whatever happens, you’ve given me hundreds of hours of pleasure that I can listen to again and again whenever I like. Hoping you can both reconcile and come back to make more great podcasts. (Don’t even mind if you charge £10 for 4!) If not, you leave quite a legacy of C&H. Thank you both.

  115. Thank you Andrew and Richard for all the many hours of fun and laughter. I hope there are many more to come.

    But if not we can always start from #1 again…

  116. Sorry to learn this has genuinely caused friction between the two of you. I hope you resolve things soon, as your continued friendship is the most important matter here.

    You won’t get rid of us comedy Internet nerds easily – we’ll all stick around tuning into your radio shows / attending gigs / reading blogs / listening to podcasts etc whether they’re solo ventures or as C+H, as we do appreciate all the efforts you make to keep us entertained.

    Good luck with the shows over the next few weeks & I look forward to catching a preview of Richard’s WILA soon.

    Take care both of you.

  117. Completely gutted, and sincerely hope this isn’t the end for two brilliantly funny and consummate performers. Been working through the podcasts over the past few months, giving me some difficulties in real life. I still re-listen to Podcast 92 whenever I need a quick lift (especially both of you corpsing early on at Herrin’s outrageous comment about a certain charitable cause, and the hilarious reading of the young RH’s meandering stories)
    In fact, all this business has brought me down a little, so I’m away to listen to you two giggling like kids.

    Thanks again. Peace, B

  118. It’s sad to see you part ways for now, but hey, your possible fresh, eventual return will be better than hearing Richard nearly biting your head off in Podcast #164! All the best to the both of you.

  119. It is funny that, only the other day, I was thinking how great a podcast featuring Andrew and a series of comedians a la Marsha Meets would be. A short stint with Long will give me a tiny idea.
    I am sad to miss my dose of the Collings and Herrin but now I have an excuse to start at the start again and work my way back through them all. I still run through the Lee and Herring Radio One shows so if this were the end rather than just a protracted hiatus then it would just join the long list of projects that Richard and various partners have produced for me at no cost to my wallet. Perhaps if I paid these artists more than the cost of an occasional DVD for years of their lives they would stick around?

  120. Close friendships are often tested. RH clearly tested AC with Tiny AC and AC now is asserting himself after telling RH several times that he was going too far; remember the embarassing “safety word” on the podcasts?

    I hope they make up and RH can get over this as AC got over the AIOTM (aiotm) characature.

    P.S. AC has missed a good opportunity for a joke by finishing the blog entry with “Aside, I really hate RH and an glad to have dumped him”

  121. I’m glad I’m not alone in finding your podcasts and radio show the best thing that existed. Listening to the bonus ones last night, it is much more fun to listen to when you know RH isn’t going to explode into a rant (he was hurtful about your sitcom) and he was more engaged and engaging as a result. I think what will come of this for me is that I will give AC’s solo stuff a go which I haven’t done previously. I find RH’s reply reads like his teenage diary – petulant and self-obsessed – but no matter, I would probably be in a mental institution by now if I had attempted half the work RH has done this year and he is a tortured and funny artiste! AC, I hope you rise from the flour-covered shadow and become a globally revered broadcaster, who is extremely happy and this all gets sorted out.

  122. Paid work is paid work. I can understand that Richard might be upset at the perceived slight at first but I’m surprised he hasn’t thought it through and realised that being precious about a particular three hour time slot is a bit childish.

    6 Music is Andrew’s gig and live comedy is Richard’s gig. The difference is, Richard has full control of the live comedy thing and he can do pretty much whatever he wants (give Andrew a slot to do his stand up, sell his DVD’s etc) but Andrew has very little control over the radio thing. The BBC control it entirely and Andrew just has to do what is asked of him if he wants continued work. if Andrew’s aim is to get a regular slot back on 6 Music then doing what’s asked of him and being a reliable fall back goes a long way to achieving that aim.

    Obviously we don’t know the exact circumstances of how Richard found out about the new show with Josie Long and it’s entirely conceivable that Andrew didn’t handle it as sensitively as he should but over all, from what we do know, I don’t think Richard has too much to complain about.

    By the way, did this all have to be aired in public? Don’t get me wrong, it’s interesting to read of the goings on of the double act behind closed doors, but it all seems quite undignified. Could this not have been kept between you?

    • I think that Richard’s main gripe is that he feels now like he was putting more into C&H than Andrew would. And that he now needs to assess how much of his personal time and effort he ought to be putting into something that he’s only just realised Andrew treats as more throwaway (ironic given the attitude of Richard’s podcast persona). “I don’t think Andrew considered the impact of his decision at the time, but that in itself to me speaks volumes.” So it’s not so much what Andrew did, as what he didn’t realise Richard was doing to sustain their double act, and therefore what he didn’t know he should be doing too.

  123. I think the way Richard wasn’t really an ideal fit for 6Music was the reason we liked the show. Josie Long will undoubtedly know more about music and behave herself but the fans will greatly miss the air of anarchy that was constantly simmering in the background of Collins and Herring. As for Collings and Herrin, I can only selfishly hope that eventually the two of you will make up and get back to the attic.

  124. This is not MAH favourite thing thats happened.

    whatever happens I hope your personal friendship does not suffer

  125. I take you both have each others telephone numbers…? Call each other and whether you feel slighted, or not, start with the words ‘I’m sorry….’. My therapist assures me this is the best way and whilst you avoid it, you feel the void with negative thoughts.

    Just look at the affect it’s having on the children!?

    • Ah yes but who should say sorry first? Should they say it at the same time, whilst leaping with gay abandon into an empty swimming pool?

      Answer: yes, and it should be filmed for a video podcast.

  126. Reading Andrew’s entry it looks like it was 6Music decision to which Andrew agreed.
    REading Richard’s entry it looks like it was Andrew’s decision.

    Does Andrew have that much power in 6Music?

  127. Me again,
    Reading both sides I have to say Andrew can’t be expected to turn down work. I don’t think Richard is right to say that turning it down won’t affect other 6Music jobs. As someone who hires engineering contractors, when I get knocked back few times, I tend to stop calling or put that person way down my list.

  128. If there’s one thing to learn from this blog, it is this: At least 12,000 people (I suspect it’s gone up a lot by now) people REALLY care about both of you. Remember that.

    Plus, 167 comments is the most commented-on blog I’ve seen in a LONG time – and I look at blogs for a living. People REALLY care about this.

    All the best to you both, as always.

  129. Andrew isn’t doing anything to break-up the double act, he’s (temporarily at this point) co-presenting a radio show with Josie Long. The double-act could still exist! I dont think it would have been at all obvious to him that Richard’s feelings would be hurt by him doing a radio show. Of course i dont know Richard as well as Andrew so this is just IMHO.

    As for the situation being humiliating for Richard – i’m surprised that it wasn’t obvious to him that the Richard Herring double-act character sometimes himiliates Andrew Collins a tinsy-winsy bit. If he was unable to summise that then why does he expect Andrew to have guessed that his new radio show would upset him so much?

    You are both great at what you do, together and apart. Keep doing it. I hope you guys remain firm colleagues in the future =)

  130. All I have proposed is that we take a break from the podcast, because I am very busy and don’t feel in the mood to be jocular with Andrew over this. I have always made time for the Collings and Herrin stuff, even when ludicrously busy, but it’s stupid for me to make that effort if the commitment isn’t coming from both ways.
    We did that show for over a year, me often arriving home at 2 from a gig, getting up at 7, doing the show and then driving off to do another gig. I put in that commitment because I wanted us both to keep the show. My commitment stayed right until the end. Perhaps some of you don’t get the comedy persona I am playing in the show (and sometimes Andrew doesn’t too) but I like music and loved doing the show and made the effort because I thought it was important for us both.
    If you can’t see that it would be upsetting to be dropped from the show and to have the person I had done it with happy to carry on without me then I don’t think you’re really thinking it through. Not so unhappy that I don’t like him any more or even to stop doing the podcasts (Andrew’s blog seems to over dramatise the whole thing). Just enough to think I am not going to kill myself any longer if Andrew isn’t that committed to it.
    It’s a slightly odd and short sighted decision on his part I think, both in the implications it has for us and the fact that he is essentially training up his own replacement and he could easily have said no, given the circumstances. I think the strength of interest in this blog shows that people were committed to the double act and I was only thinking of the confusion they would feel and the signals it sent out. I don’t accept that five days of paid work is worth more than a professional relationship or friendship.
    I slightly resent having to defend myself in public. I was happy to leave it that we were taking a break and was only trying to explain the facts behind my decision because the original blog did not give the full details.
    If you want it to return then I think taking sides and criticising either of us will just make it less likely. It’s not a cut and dried case of right and wrong anyway and we’re both entitled to feel how we do, but I am finding this more upsetting than the original problem to be honest.

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